Vengeance.

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From WIZARD through Harry at Sharkhunters:

More problems with the British Royal Navy Astute class of submarine?

Most complicated thing made by man but seemingly the entire class of vessel jinxed?

"jinxed - - 2. A condition or period of bad luck that appears to have been caused by a specific person or thing."

"Are Royal Navy submarines appear to be blind… first HMS ASTUTE, touted as the world’s the most sophisticated submarine, ran aground. A short time later, her sister ship HMS AMBUSH surfaced right under a mammoth tanker and now we note that there are online photos of HMS VENGEANCE returning to her base in Scotland from her latest three-month deployment with ‘considerable damage’. The report states that some 30% of her sonar panels were shed at some point during her mission."

THE MODERN SUBMARINE RUNNING "BLIND" UNDERWATER RELIANT ALMOST TOTALLY 100 % ON WHAT CAN BE "HEARD" VIA SONAR, PASSIVE AND  ACTIVE. NO SONAR NO CAN SEE, NO CAN DO MISSION!

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N N 3.

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Pitch, roll, yaw!

The French submarine Robert Surcouf [N N 3]. French naval vessel from the inter-war era [WW1 and WW2], at the time the LARGEST submarine in the world.

With an unconventional mission. A submarine designed primarily to engage enemy targets using naval gunfire! Organic dual 203 mm [eight inch] naval guns with extraordinary range. A formidable capability. Surcouf the mission as envisioned as a commerce raider, destroy enemy merchant shipping.

That mission of Surcouf commensurate with the French naval doctrine of Jeune Ecole from the era of the late Nineteenth Century?

"Surcouf . . . an 'underwater heavy cruiser', intended to seek and engage in surface combat"

Ability of those big-bore naval guns to successfully destroy targets inhibited by a variety of factors to include:

* "Because of the low height of the rangefinder above the water surface, the practical range of fire was 12,000 m[eters] . . . well below the normal maximum of 26,000 m[eters] (28,000 yd)."

* "The duration between the surface order and the first firing round was 3 minutes and 35 seconds."

* "Firing had to occur at a precise moment of pitch [up/down motion] and roll [side to side motion] when the ship was level."

* "Training the turret to either side was limited to when the ship rolled 8° or less."

* "Surcouf was not equipped to fire at night"

* "The mounts were designed to fire 14 rounds from each gun before their magazines were reloaded."

Sailors have their own words for pitch, roll and yaw. Gunners firing the eight inch [203 mm] guns of the Surcouf their primary concern the surge and sway.

Surcouf also able to attack targets in the manner of a conventional submarine attack, using torpedoes of either 400 mm [16 inches] or 550 mm [22 inches] diameter. Unconventional sized torpedoes for a conventional type of naval warfare. Do it the French way I guess.

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NYC.

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Attack USA WW2!! Preposterous?

From the outstanding Internet web site "Covert Shores" and the article by H I Sutton:

"Decima-MAS_attack_on_New-York"

"Planned Special Forces attack on New York, 1943

Attack USA, New York City!! Italian naval commando.

"For the New York attack the CA-Class was heavily modified with the torpedoes removed and four large mines instead added to a remodeled superstructure. A diver lock-out compartment was built into the hull with hatches on both top and bottom. This allowed the frogmen to access the midget submarine directly from the dry interior of the host submarine."

Naval commando combat swimmers [free divers] exiting a modified CA class Italian midget submarine. Attaching limpet mines to the hulls of merchant vessels anchored New York harbor. Ships sent to the bottom. Material loss minor, psychological damage GREAT! So was the plan!

"The plan was to deliver a CA midget submarine to the mouth of the Hudson River using a submarine of the Italian Atlantic Fleet which operated out of occupied France. It would then drive up the river, releasing frogmen who would place limpet mines on unsuspecting merchant ships there before rejoining the mini-sub and returning to the mother submarine."

MUCH H AS BEEN WRITTEN ABOUT THE POOR PERFORMANCE OF THE ITALIAN MILITARY DURING BOTH WORLD WARS. ITALIAN NAVAL COMMANDO UNITS HOWEVER THEIR ABILITY AND DARING SUPERLATIVE, THE STANDARD BY WHICH ALL OTHER NAVAL COMMANDO UNITS MUST BE JUDGED.

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Super.

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From Harry at Sharkhunters some info regarding the American submarine force as envisioned for the future.

Virginia class submarine [replacing the Los Angeles class] already a done deal and already at-sea and on patrol.

Columbia class construction of which on-order, to commence in a few years. [replacing the Ohio class missile-firing ballistic missile boats]

Consider also the future of the American submarine force. None of this I was aware of.

"SUPER SUBMARINES – The US Navy plans to develop two new classes of submarine, according to Congressional analysis of the sea service’s shipbuilding plan for 2019. The cost of designing and building five of the new ‘Large Payload Submarine’ cruise missile submarines and 30 of the new SSN(X) attack submarines could set the American tax payers back some $200 Billion by 2048."

Details courtesy this article as seen at the Internet web site The National Interest"

"The Navy's New Submarine Plan Is In. Take a Look."

"Designing and building five of the new Large Payload Submarine cruise-missile subs and 30 of the new SSN(X) attack submarines could set back U.S. taxpayers $200 billion by 2048."

With regard to the "Large Payload Submarine cruise-missile subs" mission of which is to fire a stupendous barrage of cruise-missiles. Four current Ohio class submarines already having a capability. Newer submarines as on-the-drawing-board their design specifically for such a dedicated mission.

"[Large Payload Submarine] based on the Columbia-class hull with its missile tube section reconfigured to perform whatever missions the Navy might want"

Furthermore the SSN(X) submarine an attack boat more suited to wage undersea-warfare, submarine versus submarine, conventional torpedo attack in the ancient and venerable manner.

"the next-generation attack submarine should be faster, stealthier and able to carry more torpedoes than the Virginia class"

Thank you for the input Harry. Note also no diesel/electric boat or Air-independent-propulsion.

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Impasse?

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Australians now at odds with the French? Shortfin now fini? Soryu yes Barracuda no? I thought this was a done deal!

From the story as seen at Freeper.

"Aussies At Impasse With France Over New Sub; Japan May Win"

"You don’t often think about France and Australia, unless you really know your history and know that a French explorer arrived in the Antipodes days after the First Fleet arrived from Britain and that much of the vast continent was surveyed by French sailors. But France and Australia may grow much closer . . .  if they can sign a strategic partnership agreement to clear the path for work on a stealthy attack submarine known as the Shortfin Barracuda. That is beginning to look less likely, with French and Australian politicians and policymakers increasingly questioning the program."

"France and Australia must resolve major differences over the Aussie’ new submarine program before a new Australian government is elected next year, and the most obvious alternative is Japan."

A$50 billion [Australian dollars] contract at stake here? NO chump change as they say.

See previous blog entries the topic of which was the next-generation RAN submarine. Royal Australian Navy having decided first on the French model Shortfin Barracuda but now the impasse?

https://militaryanalysis.blogspot.com/2018/02/shortfin.html

https://militaryanalysis.blogspot.com/2018/04/steel.html

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S-144.

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Spies and subs!

More items of interest as extracted from the Independent Barents Observer Norwegian media outlet. Thanks in all cases to the Observer and again Thomas Nilsen in particular.

Miscellany with a military dimension.

1. "To the memory of the submarine commanders who fired nuclear torpedoes at Novaya Zemlya"

"It was early morning 10th October 1957 when Captain Georgy Lazarev slowly sailed his «S-144» submarine [Whiskey class] into the quiet waters of the Chernaya Guba to conduct the first ever launch of a nuclear torpedo. More than 60 years later, his devastating blast is honoured with a monument on site."

2. "From this secret base, Russian spy ships increase activity around global data cables"

"Olenya Bay on the coast of the Barents Sea is home to a fleet of nuclear powered spy submarines and surface vessels which NATO now says are dramatically stepping up activities around undersea data cables in the North Atlantic."

"SPY SHIPS" AS THEY ARE CALLED DEMONSTRATING THE POSSIBLE OF CYBER-WARFARE IN CASE OF FUTURE CONFLICT? PHYSICALLY DESTROY CABLES OR INTRUDE INTO COMPUTER NETWORKS AND DO SO ON A WORLD-WIDE BASIS.

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